just curious if you actually know anything about buddhism or hinduism? also people degrade symbols of Jesus Christ all of the time. they where the cross act in ungodly manners as you have here. the truth is that there is a God. He demands our holiness, but we all have failed Him. this includes you sir. there is hope for you in Christ. he can take away that hatred that you have for others. he became sin so that you could be righteous in God’s eyes.
i don’t understand what is so wrong to you about theatre either. theatre can be more real, truthful, and transcendent than many other forms of art. music doesn’t have to just be about the instruments and some guy yelling into the mic with a terrible voice. have you ever been to the opera or ballet?
i hope and pray for the salvation of you soul.
I like to think that the reason I’m still getting shit for that piece is because I didn’t just write some snarky piece making fun of the band from a distance; I wrote some snarky piece making fun of the band in the trenches. I earned the right to do this! I actually went to see one of their shows, mocked them from a distance, mocked them to their face, and even got into a verbal tit-for-tat with them at the Rice hotel. In short, I didn’t keep a safe distance. That’s the way it should be. If you abhor something enough that you are going to mock it, you’ve got to pay some dues in the process. So let me explain my views on really trashing something.
Phenomenology of that which is worthy of a DisThere are two categories of items worthy of derision – those you are invested in and those you are not. In the former, to be invested in something, you have to participate in it in some manner; this can mean being a fan or doing an activity yourself. By participating you have expectations that come from hours of time spend doing or enjoying the subject. Here the critique, when you get down to it, will always be less about the subject than your expectations of that subject. Regardless of the tone there is always an underlying layer of support for the subject; you want it to succeed. The critique is simply attempting to put the train back on the tracks.
The latter category, that in which you are not invested, should occur less often because it has to rise above the simply bad or pedestrian. To actually be worthy of being mocked, it has to be a complete antithesis to what you find so utterly compelling about those things you do love. Additionally, you have to be willing to get down in the trenches and experience that which you abhor so much. If we’re talking music, that means you have to go see a show and engage the band. Sometimes, as in the one that garnered the call for my salvation, the disjunct is too great to overcome and concludes with both sides thinking the other is, pompous, an asshole and or and idiot. Other times this can lead to a respectful draw as in the case of Lonestar Pornstar where one guy listened to my pointed and mocking critique as to why I couldn’t stand them and then replied with something like “Yeah, that’s cool. I see where you’re coming from but, look, this is just who we are. This is a party band. We’re here to have fun, drink, and get laid.” That guy was willing to sit there and have a serious discussion about his music, take his lumps, and, with a sense of humor, state his case for his band. That made me rethink the band, give them one last listen, and conclude the music was still awful but at least I couldn’t call them stupid, delusional, or hypocrites. That’s kind of cool really. The point, again, with both of theses incidents is how I did not keep a safe distance.
ISO 9000 Certified Bitching
A recent article on the
Houston Noise Scene brought this to the fore. In the piece, the writer mocks an entire scene without having delved into it. The work of many people and the history of a local phenomenon were reduced to a lazy hacky joke column written by someone in the comfort of their air conditioned office. No messy time spent in a club or a bar. No time listening to bands and grasping what they are trying to do.I contrast that with a discussion I had with Handstamp’s Sara Cress about her dissing a Jandek show in Austin. She hated the show and I suggested that at some point she probably should have just left since it was clear she wasn’t digging it. She emphatically said I was wrong; she felt that she had a duty to stick it out in case it did at some point resonate with her. She didn’t like the Jandek show at all but she stuck it out, made the investment, and earned her right to express her reaction and opinion about the performance. I thought that was an admirable thing and I think she’s got the right approach.
My vow to you is simply this. If I’m going to use space to dis something or someone, it will be something that I give a shit about. If it is something that I’m not invested in, then I have to at least bother to attend one show and confront the subject directly. The reason I’m setting these ground rules for myself is that I don’t want to devolve into the lazy hacky writing of the afore mentioned Noise article. This high cost-to-benefit threshold simply makes it harder to spend time trashing something. Instead, I’d rather do the much better work of celebrating and documenting what’s around me and you probably should to.
The NAP Book of the Month Club Selection for May 2007:
“Jimminy Jasper,” said Duck. “Who’s the Master Blaster?”
I I I I i DON’T need your explanations. Ii trust you explicitly.
Did you see my top five reasons to love Houston Noise? I posted them on the HUH board. A little late admittedly but I only go to that apocalyptic board when I’m Gulf-side.
p.s. your number one or five or maybe four or three but I don’t think two.
p.p.s. where is Cybil?
“Here are our Top Five Reasons to Love Houston Noise Music:
1. How many times will you find a musical genre named after your hometown?
2. The fact that it’s called “noise” means that even the musicians have no illusions about its musicality — this is noise, just played with guitars and amplifiers.
3. Houston Noise is an equal opportunity genre. Men, women, men who want to be women, women who love men who want to be women — everybody has a shot at being a noiser.
4. The term Houston Noise gives KTRU-FM something to write down instead of “My roommate’s lame-ass band” under “genre” on their FDC forms.
5. Houston Noise success looks an awful lot like regular old “starving musician” failure. That means mothers across the city can say, “My son’s into Houston Noise,” instead of “My son’s a no-talent bum.” It makes for much happier small talk with strangers.”
Could that be Love? I do remember seeing some Turmoil in the Toybox shows, and KTRU collagist Keith playing some music with a vacuum cleaner a very long time ago and feeling like I was missing a better show somewhere. But you’re right Ramon. You have to get your ears dirty if you want to make fun. I think that writer has clean ears and a dirty little secret that makes her a menstrual-like-harpie. No mention of any artists at all? Disqualified.
Electra loves the Walter the Farting Dog books.
Ramon, did you dis Jesus’ band? I was wondering when somebody was going to do that. I can’t stand to watch Jesus sing anymore–He’s sooo into himself. And can you believe the messiah complex that guy has? He does those long song intros where He tells you every detail about what led Him to write it and what you should get out of it. It’s like He thinks He’s Bono or something. But He has a ton of fans, so it doesn’t surprise me that one of them would write to you about your criticism. It also wouldn’t surprise me if that was actually Jesus pretending to be one of them, though. He’s self promotional like that.
Public floggings generally do more harm than good, but sometimes they are necessary. Olivia, the Press writer whose name you took out of your post, and whose name I am clearly and shamelessly using, should know better than to even think of running such an embarassingly badly conceived, badly written, and ultimately stupid article about something of which she first and foremost obviously knows nothing about, and beyond that is clearly totally uninterested in. You would think a local music editor’s work would be cut out for them, but instead they often rely way too much on these “funny” pieces that are supposed to make us all feel as though we are coalescing into one big local hugfest. But what is so funny about targeting a fairly well-defined local sub-scene? If you can’t stand something, put some thought into it. This is why the Press is such a let down of a music paper, too often when they do go outside of their comfort zone (which appears to be Paul Wall and Mike Haaga), we are treated to throw-away garbage like this.
As for the god-bully that gave you the utterly absurd comment, I can’t believe you even gave someone that narrow-minded the time of day. Since they are so keen on hopes and prayers, they ought to hope and pray that they aren’t as stiff and dull in real-life as they are in their comments.
Anyone who read EM’s comment” note she’s quoting the HP article I link to.
K – Yes, I saw that on HUH. It was pretty funny. Cybill is still workign at the ballet and occasionally attacks people with a head lock of “How ya Doiiiiiiin’!”
EM – Turmoil in the toybox. God those guiys were awsome. Keith was super cool too.
JC – Yeah, it was Jesus’ band. Yeah, he was really annoying.
JC2- I took out OFA’s name because I wanted to keep this more general. Plus one other thing I didn’t mention is there is another kind of suck out there that is best handled by not giving it any publicity. Which I guess goes to your point about “Public floggings generally do more harm than good”.
Oh and I gave the commentator the time of day because it was utterly hilarious on various levels. “they where the cross act in ungodly manners ” is an amusing jumble of words.
To be honest, I am – once again – talking out of my ass, because I too would have given god-man the time of day. It’s just too fun to pass up. Great post by the way.
I don’t know, Ramon. I think an “articulation” theory of dissing is sufficient. If you can intelligently describe 1) what you hate and 2) why you hate it and 3) can point to some minimal experience upon which you’ve based 1 & 2, you’ve done your duty.
There’s no need to confront your oppressors or stick out their terrible performance. They’re the ones who have to earn your attention. It’s not the other way around.
So why would there be an articulation requirement? You might be wrong. If you describe your hate, someone else might be able to tell you exactly how to extract your head from your ass so that you have ears to hear.
This has happened to me more times than I care to relate.
Why would anybody bother? How many peaople actually read your posts? I would stick to bugging you and getting under your skin. Why write that little letter and use such brain power for a lost cause?? I find it very difficult to justify confronting someone just because you don’t like what they do. Did you dare confront them in front of their audience?? If so that’s pretty low. I know people such as Killian and some others are going to agree with you no matter what. BUT you did go a little too far. The band you speak of and hate are a very talented band that is going places. Further, I might add, than LP4. Live and let live, man. Ramon Medina, Mr. “Shock Value” to make up for his lack of talent.
Sunny Cruz
Yeah, I agree. Ramon is simply doing word play to justify what he knows is wrong. Nice drawn out letter, though. I’ll give him points for that, but it’s still bullshit.
nailing jesus to the cross=funny
justin’s capitalization is His genius.
i love houston noise. talk about crusaders.
knock knock: how many people attended last night’s noise show at shfl? i dunno, how many people were in the band?
houston press’ relevence is their irrelevance. long live OFA.
LOL @ you wrote about this again and it wasn’t boring.
It’s OK. It’s for your eyes only anyway!! You gave me a shot of inspiration. Your next show I will heckle you in the front row. Row?? What the fuck am I saying? Noboby is coming to your damn show!!!
MRSHL- I see your point but I’m just trying to set a personal threshold and make it public so people can call me on it if I give shit to a band on a totally superficial level. Plus, by setting the bar so high it makes it a bit harder for me to give people shit. But you know, as Sunny so rightfully puts it, there is nothing more shocking than setting limits.
“Man, that guy is so fucking restraaaaaained!!!!!”
========
Sunny – I’m not saying said band isn’t going places; it’s just not any place I care to visit. I don’t mention them by name because I already had my say and to continue would be beating a dead horse. You know Live and Let Live like you say? What? So I should go back and delete my post on the LP4 blog when I stand completely behind every word? I have to ask myself which is the more pussy thing to do- mock them from a safe distance or go to them during a show and give them shit? If I gave them shit from the safety of a typewriter then I’d be no better than the type of writing I’m objecting to.
Oh and You ask how many people actually read my posts not counting you? I have no clue but somehow people still take offense which is bizarre given that that was nearly a year ago.
==============
Anonymous – Yes, please come to our show. Send me a pseudonym if you wish and when we play our record release later this year go for it. I’ll even put you on the guest list and reserve you heckling spot for you next to Statler and Waldorf. Wakka Wakka.
Ah now I don’t think anybody here agrees with anybody here “no matter what.” I said I trust Ramon which is different.
I trust Ramon because:
a) He is a consistant rantor. It’s like his fifth career (his first four being father, husband, bread winner and musician). It’s hard to take personally at this point. It’s like taking the grump from a greasy spoon waitress personally.
b) He always gives the rantee equal opportunity.
Also, OFA got people talking so kudos to her.
Ramon referred to an article from OFA that I feel reflects the problems I have with her writing. I said as much. Why does she need to be sent kudos when all anyone here has done is critique her writing? No one is attacking her personally. She’s been nice to me, but that’s irrelevent to the subject.
“houston press’ relevence is their irrelevance. long live OFA.”
Rosa, I don’t really get what you’re trying to say.
cramer: because i’m talking out my butt?
sreesly, after 3 whiskeys can’t think of a pithy explanation ‘cept to say that irrelevance is the new insignificance.
sreesly, sreesly: we can’t count on mainstream “journalism” (at least in houston) for “serious” music critisism. blogs=the new zines.
sreesly, sreesly, sreesly…being ignored/disparaged by HP is a sign of vibrancy and some measure of success. long live nap and thee skyline netwerx
ok i’m off to listen to journey on nap podcast. tanx for that!
Don’t get me wrong, anyone who feels ignored/disparaged by the HP needs to know that it’s not important. I can’t imagine Richard Ramirez getting his feelings hurt because OFA doesn’t think his hair is cut right or his “songs” aren’t catchy enough. All I was doing was echoing Ramon in the sense that her Noise article was a waste of time and paper and ink and money. And god, how it was.
You’re welcome!
Hello, I’m new to this forum. I see that some of the people here are from Clear Creek HS. Being musicians around the greater Houston area, I wonder if anyone here knows Jonathan Faulk. He was really active in the music scene around the Houston area in the 90′s. If so, does anybody know what happened to him? I’m sorry for straying off the subject, but I was really curious if any of you crossed paths with him. Actually, he is the brother of David Faulk who went to Creek and graduated in 85′.
Met him once or twice. Played music with him once actually. But I don’t know him personally, and I have no idea where he is now.
I say kudos because it’s just a filler piece that she somehow managed to get people to pay attention to. I only think a couple from her list are funny. It’s not a very challenging lampoon target either but still she did her job. Now let’s all give our top five; mine were…
1. A great way to connect with your elders.
2. Gives you something to talk about with Chuck and Kurt.
3. A new appreciation for the perennial sound of Houston leaf blowers.
4. Ramon Medina
5. Where’s Cybill?
Remember this comment is coming from a person who thinks the HP is on par with the Greensheet in as many ways as you can think of.
The Greensheet ! That’s enough of the computer for me today. Nothing will compare.
john: oh, oh, oh..ok…i see…oh don’t get ME wrong. the OFA noise piece was so way way way WAY fucking off base that it made me want to punch a wall. i totally totally agree.
Sorry, you just lost me there.
Last I knew of, David Faulk had a law practice somewhere in the Clear Lake area. That was many moons ago, so I don’t know if he’s still doing that, but I would assume he could get in touch with Jonathan. I knew David but didn’t know his brother as well. He was supposed to be a pretty good guitar player, by all accounts.
There is a lesson to be learned from Ramon’s post, and also from the Houston Noise article…
If you dis something, it calls attention to it. Ramon and I had this debate before, and agreed to disagree. I argued that by slagging the band in question he was really just calling attention to them. For example, I had never heard of them before Ramon mentioned them. We all know, for a band, any publicity is good publicity. Thus, I would submit that Ms. Alvarez has done Houston Noise a service, by a) admitting that it exists and b) writing about it.
I kind of think that’s what Ramon is trying to get at, that if he’s really going to invest himself in slagging some band, then he at least owes the band a full, fair listening. The only problem I have with his take is that when a band really provokes that kind of a reaction in someone, then ultimately they are doing *something* right. It would have been worse if Ramon had just showed up, seen them, shrugged his shoulders and walked away. That’s probably what I would have done with the band in question, because they reminded me, offhand, of all that late 80s Austin “new sincerity” crap which made me want to puke back then, but which I gradually developed an immunity to, so that now quirky alterna-pop just blends into the background like unattended car alarms. Ramon, apparently, did not acquire this immunity during his brief foray into the Austin music scene. When I see a band with incense and bhuddas and a bunch of other hippy multicultural bullshit, I immediately think, “These guys are just trying to get laid by Peace Corps girls, give them a break…” and I move on. Maybe I’m just being charitable.
But anyway, on the topic at hand – sometimes negative attention is better than positive attention, for sure. My own favorite LP4 review of all time is also probably the most negative review we’ve ever received; in which one David Lee Beowulf opines – for starters – that LP4 sound like a bunch of lunatics with damaged high school band instruments. The review is so fucking funny, and well written, and in some ways accurate, that I still hold it up as my favorite of all time even though I’m sure the guy retched halfway through the album.
Clinton,
My reason for not developing that immunity was because i was too broke and living off of the spare bagel manufactury bagels brought over by my roommate to go out to many shows. Though I think there was enough money for beer and dope somehow.
But Yeah I think I’m conceding your point on bad publicity with this post to some degree.
Of course you’re right Sparrow. Like they say “there is no bad press.”
This line
LP4 sound like a bunch of lunatics with damaged high school band instruments
should definitely be in your press kit.
What’s all this animosity towards this particular band? Are they fakes? They sound sincere. Have they done something to make you guys think otherwise ?? I love their music. The vocals are nice too. I hear their drummer is leaving. Maybe Larry Liska can apply for that job when he’s not beating the drum for LP4.
Anon,
“they sound sincere”
is not a compliment where I come from.
And
“they ARE sincere” is even worse.
Maybe I didn’t get my point across, but sincerity is the very last thing I want from a rock & roll band.
That being said, I never even saw these guys, and I hardly know anything about them other than that they had some kind of faux-hippie mysticism-meets-multiculturalism shtick going on; this is based purely on secondhand reports and photos (and, well, their website). My point to Ramon was that this is hardly anything to get worked up about, since copping phony hippie bullshit so you can screw co-op girls is the oldest trick in the book. In fact, I actually admire them for it – I am, after all, the dude who followed a really hot girl to an Amnesty International meeting back in my college days. I think she caught on when I started snickering at their presentation, though. I have NO poker face…
I am in no position to comment on this band’s musical ability, talent, songwriting, etc. and I bear them no ill will whatsoever. What little of them I did hear, off their website, wasn’t really the kind of music I’m personally into, but it sounded quite competent instrumentally, etc. I think what Ramon objected to was more their image and stage presence than their music itself. For my part, shtick is shtick and I’m as guilty of it as the next man, so I am in no position to judge.
Dear anon,
The band’s worst offense was a pseudo-philosophy that sounded good until you realized it didn’t mean anything. Curiously, the philosophy seems to have disappeared from their myspace. Hmmm, wonder why?
Another thing I objected to white dudes playing cultural mix and match of eastern philosophies/ religions on an entirely superficial level.
Lastly I abhor “rock stars” that put on airs. Hell I just abhor rock stars in general – I’m a musical populist. Damn my growing up on Punk Rock!!!
Anyhow, I think the points were pretty clear and if you like someone throwing phrases that mean nothing, shallow appropriation of cultures, and bowing down to celebrities, GREAT. Knock yourself out. I just calls ‘em like I see ‘em.
More importantly why do you even care what I think? When I bitch at the Houston press on a story it’s usually because they get lazy and they don’t do their homework. I didn’t care if OFA hated Houston Noise but i did care that she didn’t bother listening to it or even try to understand it. that’s why I was complimenting Sara Cress of the Chronicle.
But it’s pretty hard to take a subjective thing and criticize someone for not liking it. What am I supposed to suddenly like a band because you like them?
I mean sorry that you have to seek validation of your tastes here but look – I listen to Rush. Newsflash, Rush isn’t cool!!! If I read a review where someone was trashing Rush for … jeez, you name it, pick your favorite.. Geddy Lee’s voice or Ayn Rand inspired lyrics… I’d shrug my shoulders and say…”yeah, I can see where someone would hate that.” Then I’d turn around and rock out to Freewill and YYZ.
DO
YOU
GET
IT
?
IT’S
ALL
SUBJECTIVE.
I’m in this post clearly trying to set a high bar to make things more civil and prevent my being lazy. Sorry if your favorite band crossed that threshold; I never said I was going to be namby-pamby when bands that crossed that threshold. You should be happy that at least I’m not dragging their name through the mud a year later. I’ve moved on from that review but clearly the bands fans have not. (Shrug).
A friend of mine asked another friend of mine, what is the difference between objective and subjective? My friend gave the best answer I’ve yet to hear for that question: Objective means that someone agrees with you.
I was reading your newsflash and wondered if “YES” was cool.
I think it would be a bg fat no considerign these guys named an album “Tales of Topographic Oceans” and it was a triple album.
I actually like yes though not the Trevor Rabin era.
Actually Oceans is a double record. Yessongs is a triple live record.
And you are wrong, Yes is cool. And so is Rush. what planet do you guys live on?
Prog rock is not hip, but it is always cool.
-Progrocker Pete
Hmm it’s been a while. Was it maybe a double gatefold LP package, Pete? Maybe that’s where I’m confused.
But I agreee with your distinction between cool and hip. I stand corrected.
Rush IS cool! When did they stop being cool? Was I like in suspended animation or something?
Okay, if the band you despise is all those things you mentioned then I can see why you don’t like them and I would agree with you.
I do not agree with confronting them while they’re on stage in front of their audience or personally at the Rice hotel. That argument you had with one of their wives sounded a little extreme and unnecessary. I don’t remember all the details you had written because it was long ago, but I think it went far beyond the scope of a music critic. What happened to the power of the pen? I just don’t believe in putting people in awkward positions like that.
I said my piece. I won’t make anymore mention of it.