Comments on: Gin & Tonic, Parts & Labor, Sharks & Sailors, Satin Hooks / The Politics of Prog / Rock and Roll Stork Club

By: ramona

ramona — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:37:00 +0000

ah, thank you.

By: The Sparrows of Happiness

The Sparrows of Happiness — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:21:00 +0000

I could have gone my whole life without seeing that Rush glamour shot again. yeeesh.

I think Paul’s links make it abundantly clear that prog was most DEFINITELY not about fashion…

By: Scott Grimm

Scott Grimm — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:25:00 +0000

I’m not a big fan of punk rock, but it seemed like most of it was on major labels until Black Flag and Minor Threat came along. Those were two pretty monstrous bands in terms of influence, and their DIY aesthetic kind of became part of the creation myth of punk rock. Part of being a punk band was pressing your own 7” (which usually contained 12 songs) and distributing it yourself.

I think it’s funny that punk bands now are these artificially manufactured major label creations designed to sell sneakers and video games, and that prog bands are the underground rebels with no real commercial prospects.

But, on the other hand, part of the Sex Pistols legend is that they were really just an advertisement for Malcolm McLaren’s clothes shop, so I guess punk has a long history of merchandising tie-ins.

By: ramona pants

ramona pants — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:39:00 +0000

this is a bit of an aside, but I’ve always wondered why punk goes along with diy? what does one have to do with another? and, basically, thinking further down the road, is it because the punk movement happened that we now have so many DIY places like Home Depot?

By: paul g.

paul g. — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:18:00 +0000

Sparrow

Prog wasn't solely about the music, it had fashionable moments too. Maybe prog's fashion just sucked donkey dicks and no one in their right mind would wear that shit without a headfull of prog-rock drugs.

For instance why would Alex Lifeson sport these pants, or why would Peter Gabriel look like this and why would Rick Wakeman present himself like this if it weren't for some incredibly potent bag of crazy assed drugs.

Prog's fashion sense just didn't work for anyone other than elves, mathamaticians and teenage suburban bong hitters.

Congrats on the bambino.

By: The Sparrows of Happiness

The Sparrows of Happiness — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:58:00 +0000

I just wrote a great post and my flaky wireless ate it. But basically was picking up on what Ramona and Scott said: punk is as much about fashion as it is about music, prog is all about the music. I like a lot of punk music still, but even back in my day it was mostly an edgy, rebellious, working class image marketed to bored middle or upper middle class white kids. Maybe some of it had a political payload, but that payload was being delivered to future stockbrokers, lawyers, marketing execs, etc.

The irony of this has not been lost on me over the years.

By: dd

dd — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:23:00 +0000

Punk as DIY/self sufficient attitude vs. punk as codified religious tribe with tightly defined musical parameters vs. punk as fashion signifiers bought and sold by international corporations = multiple contrasting meanings for the same signifier and no possibility for a meaningful discussion prior to clearing up the epistemological confusion of what exactly the hell we're talking about.

sorry, I just woke up.

Brian from Seed told me I was punk rock when we were on tour and I had bought a green pepper (capsicum for any kiwis reading this) and ate it like an apple. I felt a bit proud, because I certainly wasn't trying to be punk, and most certainly didn't look punk.

By: Kilian

Kilian — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:34:00 +0000

I don't think

punk : prog

as

liberal : conservative

is the correct answer. Was it multiple choice? I'm looking for

populist : elitist

and since both parties have been accused of both interchangeably, it's not quite as political a statement.

By: Head Stapler

Head Stapler — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:07:00 +0000

I like what Scott said, and I like Paul’s use of the word “steakhead”.

By: ramona

ramona — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:19:00 +0000

punk is dead. let's move on.

haha, I'm still here. Ok, so I had to look up prog rock, and then realized that is exactly the type of music I have never learned to like. I like almost every other type, but that is a complete turn-off. It may have been what these guys looked like though, and since I haven't revisited to the entire genre, sound and look, in at least a decade, it could be that I might like it.

punk, on the other hand, was instantly a hit with me. the first time I was exposed to it was when my dad took me to the theater to see Rock N Roll High School and I think my jaw literally dropped open and I was hooked. So, talk about partnering with commercial and making money. what was the quote I saw just last week? Punk music was made to sell clothes? Something like that.

And also, this touches a bit on all the punk bad boys and girls I always thought were liberal but then turned out to be conservative. And I naively had always thought that conservative was bad. So how could this be?

Live and learn.

Speaking of living and learning, one of my degrees is in library and information science so was always all about cataloging carefully all data. But you know, heretically speaking, I think all these buckets of information we like to put things in are really causing all sorts of issues never before thought of.

Punk, Prog, Liberal, Conservative - it's really much more complex and bizarre than those four words.