How HR Tugged His First Load
My wife likes shitty music. It’s a bone of contention. Of course, if you ask her, I like shitty music too. We fight about it. I hate her Dixie Chicks CD and she detests my Jandek records. I’ll never let her down for liking Edie Brickell, and she will never understand what is so goddamn magical about Dio era Sabbath. But if there is one thing I’ve learned through my life, it’s that you can’t define someone by his or her tastes. At least you can’t honestly do so categorically. Well, you can, but you would be a retard if you did.
All this talk about hipsters and rock bands and the like has had me thinking on this subject. I gave up knowing what was and wasn’t hip years ago. You know why, because I’m almost forty. I’m too old to fucking know the difference. When young people started calling me sir, it was over. That game is for young people.
I’m not above wanting to fit in somewhere; I’m just not so concerned with who thinks I’m cool and who doesn’t. I’ve learned that some folks like me and some don’t. I care about this, but at the same time, I don’t. My tastes change, and I try my best to keep up with them. I also try my best to follow my tastes without leading them too much in any one direction.
Of course I have my areas of specific interest, and I have bands, or musicians, or what have you that appeal to me more than others, but I try to stay open to the possibility that the beauty of music lies every-fucking-where.
My wife loves music. When we met (at one of my shows), she demonstrated a strong natural ear for melody and stylistic techniques. I was drawn to that (among other things) about her.
Notice I didn’t say that I completely embraced her tastes, because I didn’t, and I never will. There have been many exceptions, many bands that we love together (such as the Grifters, and (some) Calexico, Crowded House, etc… blah, blah, blah), but for every one that we agree on there are thirty or forty that I adore that simply bore here, or else straight out piss her off.
The reason I am using her as an example is because while our tastes in music (and other creative areas as well) are different, at the end of the day we are together because we care about and respect each other. I love that she cares so much about music even, and especially, if it is on her own terms. So what if I want to extinguish my own flame with a hand grenade every time she touches her Big Head Todd and the Monsters CD? Fortunately we’ve reached an agreement about the shitty stuff: neither of us will force the other to listen to it. Problem solved.
When I say I don’t like a band, like say the Ramones, it isn’t to be taken as a gospel truth no matter how much I joke about it being so. It just means this guy doesn’t think the Ramones are all that great. So what.
I’m sure I’m botching this here, but when Daniel posted a comment about how Bad Brains used Ramones lyrics to name themselves, or how Lemmy dug the Ramones, or how that windbag douche, Little Steven professes his love for the Ramones (he also loves Sugar Shack – as do I), I must say that I don’t really give a shit. Jim fucking dandy. Great. If HR from Bad Brains prattled on in his own blog about how he tugged his first load at a Ramones show, good for him. I’m not trying to deny that. It’s his blog after all. In mine I compared AC/DC to the Ramones to make a point. This seems to have stuck in people’s craw, but not for the right reasons. It would appear as though I have offended the very idea of liking them. I didn’t, for the record. I stated my dislike for them and did so in a particular context.
We’re all full of stupid assed ideas in this world. It takes a life to fill us up to the brim with our own bullshit. And we all build a mythology to live up to, myself most definitely included.
Claire’s right, cool doesn’t mean anything worthwhile anymore, and it never did. But anyone who thinks that there isn’t a desire for people to cling to precepts and idiosyncrasies because it helps them identify themselves in society is blind.
My wife and I take digs at one another’s tastes; it helps us rectify the fact that we are choosing to spend our lives with a person from a different universe than our own. Granted, I often wonder if I am the sole inhabitant of my universe, but that is something of a digression that I will avoid just this once. But after we tease each other we move on because it isn’t really that big a deal in the first place.
I think snobbery is a better way of identifying what is at work when our ire is raised, instead of hipsterism. Loosely defined, a hipster is someone who clings to fashionable trends in order to belong. A snob is someone who defines things within narrow parameters for the sake of limiting the access to those concepts. That idea is deplorable.
A hipster might think they are better than you (it really isn’t even necessary to being a hipster), but a snob fucking knows they are better than you.
Damn near no one calls me a hipster, but I am well versed in the accusation of being called a snob. Personally I think that claim is always from someone who doesn’t really know me very well. If they knew me well, then they would know that at heart, I hate everyone so much that I couldn’t really care less what they like as long as I don’t have to hear about it. If you sing in the shower to AFI, I’m sorry for you, but really, I don’t give a shit. I just hope you really like it. If you do, then fuck the rest of the world. They can have their John Coltrane and their Opeth, and you can still keep enjoying that Limp Bizkit CD that gets you so moist in the loins. My wife loves KD Lang’s voice. I hate it. And yet, I couldn’t be happier for her. Seriously. That’s called dignity, and I may have given up a lot to be who I am in this life, but I haven’t given that away. Well, at least not all of it anyway.
And a la-di-fucking-da to you all.
(I should perhaps add that I am taking certain liberties with my wife’s musical taste. Most of the stuff that I’ve used against her in this post has vanished from her collection years ago. I should also add that I almost never listen to Jandek, as most of his music is, in all honesty, fairly terrible.)
(I am hoping, quite possibly in vain, that the above footnote will somehow save me from a testicular stabbing in the next few nights.)
(At the end of the day, the Ramones really do suck. Really, they do.)
All this talk about hipsters and rock bands and the like has had me thinking on this subject. I gave up knowing what was and wasn’t hip years ago. You know why, because I’m almost forty. I’m too old to fucking know the difference. When young people started calling me sir, it was over. That game is for young people.
I’m not above wanting to fit in somewhere; I’m just not so concerned with who thinks I’m cool and who doesn’t. I’ve learned that some folks like me and some don’t. I care about this, but at the same time, I don’t. My tastes change, and I try my best to keep up with them. I also try my best to follow my tastes without leading them too much in any one direction.
Of course I have my areas of specific interest, and I have bands, or musicians, or what have you that appeal to me more than others, but I try to stay open to the possibility that the beauty of music lies every-fucking-where.
My wife loves music. When we met (at one of my shows), she demonstrated a strong natural ear for melody and stylistic techniques. I was drawn to that (among other things) about her.
Notice I didn’t say that I completely embraced her tastes, because I didn’t, and I never will. There have been many exceptions, many bands that we love together (such as the Grifters, and (some) Calexico, Crowded House, etc… blah, blah, blah), but for every one that we agree on there are thirty or forty that I adore that simply bore here, or else straight out piss her off.
The reason I am using her as an example is because while our tastes in music (and other creative areas as well) are different, at the end of the day we are together because we care about and respect each other. I love that she cares so much about music even, and especially, if it is on her own terms. So what if I want to extinguish my own flame with a hand grenade every time she touches her Big Head Todd and the Monsters CD? Fortunately we’ve reached an agreement about the shitty stuff: neither of us will force the other to listen to it. Problem solved.
When I say I don’t like a band, like say the Ramones, it isn’t to be taken as a gospel truth no matter how much I joke about it being so. It just means this guy doesn’t think the Ramones are all that great. So what.
I’m sure I’m botching this here, but when Daniel posted a comment about how Bad Brains used Ramones lyrics to name themselves, or how Lemmy dug the Ramones, or how that windbag douche, Little Steven professes his love for the Ramones (he also loves Sugar Shack – as do I), I must say that I don’t really give a shit. Jim fucking dandy. Great. If HR from Bad Brains prattled on in his own blog about how he tugged his first load at a Ramones show, good for him. I’m not trying to deny that. It’s his blog after all. In mine I compared AC/DC to the Ramones to make a point. This seems to have stuck in people’s craw, but not for the right reasons. It would appear as though I have offended the very idea of liking them. I didn’t, for the record. I stated my dislike for them and did so in a particular context.
We’re all full of stupid assed ideas in this world. It takes a life to fill us up to the brim with our own bullshit. And we all build a mythology to live up to, myself most definitely included.
Claire’s right, cool doesn’t mean anything worthwhile anymore, and it never did. But anyone who thinks that there isn’t a desire for people to cling to precepts and idiosyncrasies because it helps them identify themselves in society is blind.
My wife and I take digs at one another’s tastes; it helps us rectify the fact that we are choosing to spend our lives with a person from a different universe than our own. Granted, I often wonder if I am the sole inhabitant of my universe, but that is something of a digression that I will avoid just this once. But after we tease each other we move on because it isn’t really that big a deal in the first place.
I think snobbery is a better way of identifying what is at work when our ire is raised, instead of hipsterism. Loosely defined, a hipster is someone who clings to fashionable trends in order to belong. A snob is someone who defines things within narrow parameters for the sake of limiting the access to those concepts. That idea is deplorable.
A hipster might think they are better than you (it really isn’t even necessary to being a hipster), but a snob fucking knows they are better than you.
Damn near no one calls me a hipster, but I am well versed in the accusation of being called a snob. Personally I think that claim is always from someone who doesn’t really know me very well. If they knew me well, then they would know that at heart, I hate everyone so much that I couldn’t really care less what they like as long as I don’t have to hear about it. If you sing in the shower to AFI, I’m sorry for you, but really, I don’t give a shit. I just hope you really like it. If you do, then fuck the rest of the world. They can have their John Coltrane and their Opeth, and you can still keep enjoying that Limp Bizkit CD that gets you so moist in the loins. My wife loves KD Lang’s voice. I hate it. And yet, I couldn’t be happier for her. Seriously. That’s called dignity, and I may have given up a lot to be who I am in this life, but I haven’t given that away. Well, at least not all of it anyway.
And a la-di-fucking-da to you all.
(I should perhaps add that I am taking certain liberties with my wife’s musical taste. Most of the stuff that I’ve used against her in this post has vanished from her collection years ago. I should also add that I almost never listen to Jandek, as most of his music is, in all honesty, fairly terrible.)
(I am hoping, quite possibly in vain, that the above footnote will somehow save me from a testicular stabbing in the next few nights.)
(At the end of the day, the Ramones really do suck. Really, they do.)
31 Comments:
You know you're old when the young people, well, their music sucks and they dress funny.
Nah. They just dress like my mother and she's almost 60.
and about the music.... The music always sucked.
Unfortunately, anon, their music sucked and they dressed funny when I was their age too.
John, I respect your opinion, and I wasn't asking you to give a shit about who likes the Ramones. None of what I said was a response to your blog post, which is why I didn't post a comment until two full days after it went up. Everything that I said was a response to this:
"It's more what John is saying, that the Ramones were always the critical darlings of the urban punk/hipster elite, who sneer through their lattes at bands like AC/DC and their legions of suburban meathead fans."
Which you didn't say in your post. Maybe you did in the comments, I don't feel like trawling them for a reference. Judging from that comment, Sparrows does care who likes the Ramones, so I told him. Hipster-bashing drives me a little crazy, I admit.
It never hurts to remember that some people just like the Ramones because the music makes them feel good. My brother the computer programmer is anything but a hipster, about as far from hipsterism as you can be, and I think the Ramones are his first musical love. In fact, it seems like most of what he listens to is that kind of fast pop-punk that was all Ramones-derived. Not trying to pitch in my two cents on the whole debate for any particular reason, just to throw some weight behind the idea that some people like certain kinds of music for different reasons, be it because it rocks hard, or because it makes you pogo in your chair while you're sitting in your cubicle programming.
Loosely defined, a hipster is someone who clings to fashionable trends in order to belong.
I don't agree with that definition but rather see that as an assumption. I agree that a definition of a hipster is someone who is hyper aware of fashionable trends but to give a reason as to why is beyond the definition.
And why would that be, K? Beyond the definition? I don't agree with that.
And Daniel, my apologies. I did botch it as I suspected I would. And by the way, I respect your opinion too.
And Charlie, you are of course right about liking something just because. I respect that too.
K- the bigger problem with any definition is defining what a 'fashionable trend' is. There are many, many trends. Some seem fashionable to some people, others seems fashionable to other people. Even anti-fashion is a fashion. I think Ramon is anti-fashion; he thinks he's sloppy. I thought I was being anti-fashion by not buying the new iphone, instead I bought a cheapshit LG which drops every call I make.
Also, it is not cool to make fun of someone else's genuine caffeine addiction. I don't necessarily buy lattes, but I do heat the milk that goes into my coffee before I drink it. And, I do this twice daily because otherwise I wouldn't get anything done. If I go cold turkey, I get nauseous and throw up. I shouldn't be allowed to drive, read maps, make any decisions of any importance, or be expected to make intelligent conversation before having the morning cup.
John,
Sunn rules. That is all.
JC,
This has very little to do with your post, but I thought you might enjoy the story.
Long ago, I was hanging out with a crew of retards wanting to go to Numbers. Either people wanted to get their dance on or drug on ... or both. I was neither a dancer nor user so I opted out of the excursion but came to regret my decision once I saw Keith Rebstock appear at the door ready to get it on. Keith was truly in the most awesome hipster duds of the day: beat up black Chuck Taylors without socks, dirty faded bluejean overalls rolled up to his knees, a worn out Bud jersey, and a NY Yankees batting helmet (ala John Olerud).
"You're going to Numbers dressed like that?" I inquired.
"Fuck yeah!" Keith responded.
Fuck yeah indeed.
Unfashion by Tibor Kalman is probably one of my favorite books. It's nothing but photographs of people from all over the world in different clothes. I pick it up whenever I can't decide on a subject to paint on.
Bluebird,
Lest I appear as a resident of a glass house who casts stones, I own up to a daily latte addiction. Plus a few cups of plain old joe on top of that, most days. I don't puke without coffee, but I can't function and I get headaches. That makes it way too hard for me to sneer at Ramones fans while deciding which pair of Chuck Taylors will make me seem more edgy. We Houston hipsters have long ago decided, in our caffeine-fueled Star Chamber meetings, that lame NYC bands like the Ramones are completely dated, irrelevant garbage. Well that and they're dead, mostly. Whereas AC/DC is only 25% dead (or 20% dead if you include the new singer), making them mathematically way more cool already than AC/DC. Unless being dead is cool again, like it was in the 60s. Which it isn't, right?
Can someone from the Star Chamber back me up here? I'm getting confused...
I guess that right now wouldn't be the best time for me to mention that I think the Misfits are overrated too, huh?
OK so math wasn't my "thing" in school. AC/DC is actually only 20% dead and 17% dead if you include the current singer in their roster. Whereas I think the Ramones may be 143% dead, or something like that.
Of course each of us has his own definition of hipster so my argument is nothing more than mine alone and that is that the definition of hipster includes neither a reason for an interest in fashionable trends nor a definition of said trends.
Boring isn't it?
Yes Kilian, it is. It so fucking is!
I'll second the Misfits, though I'll add that I've enjoyed them on occasion. I shudder whenever I read another neo-punk MTV-friendly hack waddle on about how great the Misfits were. Of course this extends out to include Danzig, the king of the douches.
And, Ramon, for god's sake, if boring ever stopped any of us, this blog wouldn't exist! So please, K, be as boring as you want. I'll read it all. Not agreeing somtimes is just the gravy, but I enjoy the bulk of it, boring or not. I'm sure most of the known world finds people like me to about as exciting as a box of powdered potatos. Who cares? I sure don't. Sherry anyone? Let's drink an NAP toast to us and our utterly arcane, mundane, and soul-shearingly boring blog and accompanied comments section! Cheers.
Speaking of Danzig, has anyone ever seen the little video documentary thing about him? I'll have to ask Mike what that was, but we watched it one time, and I swear, even though Danzig (solo by this time) is the focus, he comes off looking like such an emotionally immature tool. He looks all sulky and monosyllabic like a teenager, and talks about how much he loves X-Men comics, but particularly Wolverine, because he's "badass". Anyway, I can't remember much specific about it because it's been years since I've seen it, but I was wondering if anyone had it, because I'd love to watch it again. It was even funnier and more pathetic than that damn Metallica doc.
This is old news, but its still worth watching.
If you want to see Danzig get punched, check here.
You can read the story of what heppend here.
My favorite thing about that Danzig video (apart from the obvious) is the guy who has "METAL" in big white letters on the back of his shirt, the same way some people would have "SECURITY" or "POLICE" on their shirt.
I am sometimes very glad I live in NZ where I am insulated from the trends; as a result, I have basically no opinion on whether hipsters exist or not.
there is no way to win at the 'is this hip or not' game. if its hip its not hip, which means its hip, but therefore it's not hip and by not being hip becomes hip which makes it unhip, etc etc etc ad nauseum.
Dear Mr. Could this Discussion Still be Going on?
It has already been determined that John is the winner.
Wrong again, Kilian. Ronnie James Dio is the winner. He is ALWAYS the winner.
Thanks to you Sparrows, I now cannot hear the name Ronnie James Dio wihtout bursting out in laughter. Thank you!
by the way, head stapler, have been following your links... i knew who tibor kalman was from colors magazine, but hadn't seen that book. v cool.
cool.
If you're arguing about the definition of a hipster... you're probably a hipster.
Which means... there's a slight chance... you may just not be a redneck. Gabba gabba hey!
My apologies to Jeff Foxworthy.
Why would anyone need to apologize to the husk of a man that is Jeff Foxworthy?
Jeff who?
I saw a t-shirt that read, "I listen to music not even made yet." Somehow that seems to fit in this discussion.
Bluebird - I'm sorry your new phone sucks.
Conor - I think you got it.
Cramer - why are you apologizing about the Ramones? I think everybody had a grand ol time, with that post.
And, I am old too. Only one more little year before 40. Freeaky!
"why are you apologizing about the Ramones?" Uh, I wasn't, was I? I apologized to Daniel for misinterpreting his comments. I'm not sorry at all that I don't like the Ramones.
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