Ok, I’ve gotten the feeling over the past year we’ve been doing this blog, that Steely Dan is not the most popular choice among us. But you know what, I love Steely Dan. As a matter of fact if I had to pick a genre of American music that I like almost as much as Metal, I would pick Yacht, as a genre that is. Just like Metal there is a bunch of it I can’t stand and very few that I really love, but if I had to pick, I’d choose all that nice smooth rock as a group – Hall and Oates, Toto, Kenny Loggins, Doobie Brothers, it’s all alright with me.
Steely Dan often gets thrown into the newly defined Yacht genre, and I can see why. But to me they are far and above the bunch. They are really in a category well on their own. And yes, I know we’re all tired of Reelin in the Years and Rikki Don’t Lose That Number and Do It Again, etc etc etc. But to me they are just like Rush. The same way I’ve been able to consistently go back to Rush year after year now for 3 decades, in the same way I have been able to go back to Steely Dan and always find them enjoyable. There is always some new little nuance I hadn’t notice and the songs just don’t get old. Come to think of it, from my perspective Steely Dan and Rush pretty much fall within the same genre, one band is more ironic, the other one more earnest, one is more jazzy, the other one more metally, but both are ugly, geeky, both obsessed with their instruments, and with constructing carefully crafted songs with strong instrumental sections and both write lyrics that would make most people cringe. Yeah, Steely Dan and Rush, definitely born from the same mother and father… one raised in California, the other raised in Canada. Now what would that genre be called? I’m gonnna go listen to Tom Sawyer and Kid Charlemagne back to back see if I can figure it out. Or maybe the answer lies between A Passage to Bangkok and Bodhisattva.
So I like Steely Dan and what follows are two open letters that Steely Dan wrote, one to Luke Wilson a second one to Wes Anderson.
And I’m not a reporter, so the letters I’m linking below are not news and most of you might have already seen them. My interest in these letters is purely creative. I see them the same way I see songs, stories, paintings, etc. It’s all art to me (yes I went to art school so fuck off), and by the same token all are true on a certain level. The level of truth in these two letters is to me simply auto-hilarious.
This is the first one and in my view the more successful one of the two.
This one came out afterwards, following the well established tradition of sequels.
For other Memorable Quotes, click on the link below.
Those letters are pretty hilarious. I can just picture them sitting around in their hotel room giggling their asses off as they composed them.
There’s one paragraph in the Wes Anderson letter that is the most succinct and perfect critique of his career I have ever seen. I’m totally with them on their love of Bottle Rocket and declining appreciation of each movie after that.
Well now I KNOW you’re just stirrin’ the pot, Carlos. You are going to get hate postings from Charlie Naked for sure…
We have actually had “who hates steely dan the most” contests in the practice space.
But you know what, your comparison to Rush is not all that off base, in another way: Some people just love them, others just hate them. If you’re Charlie, you hate BOTH of them.
My negative association with Steely Dan goes back to memories of going to H&H music in the mall where I grew up, and seeing some guitar sales guy in a pastel tank top and jacket with a neat little toothbrush mustache noodling Steely Dan and Al Di Meola riffs over and over again while adjusting his gold medallions.
I’m not sure if that guy really existed or if he’s just a composite character from my foggy mid-80s memories. He may not have even been playing Steely Dan, but I like to think that he knew the whole catalog by heart.
I’ve read those letters before, and after I did, almost peed myself laughing and it *almost* made me reconsider Steely Dan.
I, at least, am with you on the Steely Dan, Mr. Anaconda.
Carlos,
You’ve obviously seen these, but for all you other fans wanting to know about Yacht Rock here you go . . . enjoy.
And Sparrows . . . you’re totally the Skunk Baxter of the LP4.
I’m trying to cut down on the freelance defense contracting. Gives me ulcers.
I’m up for an Ultimate Spinach reunion, though.
Obviously, I haven’t commented herein for quite some time, now…since March or April, at the very least. And to answer your next question: no, it isn’t because I’m bored, or I got my feelings hurt, or I’m a touchy fellow, or I used to be in the Ramones. The real truth is quite simple actually…I’ve had no immediate access to a computer during this lapse. I don’t own one, myself, and I can’t really keep up during down times at work…remember, I work with animals, so, my “office” consists of a helluva lotta fur…and teeth. And spit, urine, poop…ad nauseum.
Anyway, I’ve got a moment, here, and I took a glance, and lo, and behold, Carlos had praised one of my all-time favorite groups, so I had to commander a friend’s iMac, and say “Here, Here!”
Steely Dan have, in my opinion, been one of the most misunderstood bands of all time, and I have never failed to explain a number of facts about the group to a non-fan, without them having reply “Really? I had no idea that’s what they were singing about.” Trust me, “Yacht Rock”, they ain’t…and most of their songs are quite a put-down to exactly the type of individual that might, in fact, own a yacht. They’ve been quoted as saying that they were trying to be a sort of “Duke Ellington meets the Velvet Underground”, and most of the lyrical content rivals anything as sordid as the characters within, say, “Sister Ray.” They told the hippies to fuck off long before the punks, they conned their record company into buying them instruments, hired their friends to play on their albums, openly made fun of the Eagles, and Boston, and ultimately decided touring was for lunkheads like Peter Frampton, and when the label tried to pressure them into live shows, they quite bluntly replied “No. Period.”
A lot of the criticism seems to be that they sound too slick, which I think is a bit weird. The records always sound pretty warm, and funky to my ears, I don’t hear anything “plastic or soul-less”. True, they were very demanding of the session people that they hired to play on the recordings, but everyone involved has praised the work ethic, and said that they left a Steely Dan session feeling like a much better musician. Bernard Purdie once stated that they are “the closest things to geniuses that I’ve ever seen”. Quite honestly, they’ve made no bones about stating that they just wanted the songs to be performed as best as they could be. Do any of us feel any different about our own compositions? Just because somebody like Neil Young goes for a “first take” kinda feel, it’s still the same thing, really…he just “hears” his music that way, so there you go.
If you ever get a chance, some of you should really take a closer look at their stuff, and I guarantee, you might be surprised, even shocked. Songs like “Hey, Nineteen” which portrays an aging hipster/dullard who tries to impress a young girl with his record collection, but when he realizes that she’s never heard of Aretha Franklin, he has to resort to plying her with pot and tequila in his lame, disgusting attempt at getting into her pants. Or, a song like “Bodhisattva” which pokes fun at celebrities praising Eastern religions without really knowing what in the fuck they are talking about, which predicts stupid dickheads like the Beastie Boys, and Madonna, by about 20 years.
Those are just 2 songs from over 7 albums, that are filled with a lot more cynical shit, and some of the most scathing lyrical putdowns you’re ever likely to hear, filled with some of the most repulsive characters that even Lou Reed hasn’t encountered. Hell, they named the band after a DILDO from a William S. Burroughs novel. What fucking Yacht are you sailing on?
I could go on, and on, and fill this comment with hundreds of Steely Dan facts and stories, which would show Walter Becker, and Donald Fagan to be some of the most punk rock motherfuckers to ever slap out some vinyl, but I won’t bore you any further. But if you really investigate, instead of just speculate, I think the majority of people would really re-consider. Or you can just say “fuck those guys, I’m gonna go buy that new SPOON record.” Best of luck with that.
God bless you Carlos. You deserve a merit badge. And in the immortal words of the Governor-”I’ll be back.”
Sorry but Steely Dan never did it for me. Fans always point to the lyrics. My problem is I have a weird way of listening to music and lyrics are really low on the totem pole. I listen to the voice as another instrument and the lyrics just become kind of muddled. Ultimately if lyrics just don’t outright suck I’m usually good.
My problem with Steely Dan is (from what I’ve heard – particularly Katydid which a fan made me listen to in a vain attempt to sway me) it’s so horribly precise and well constructed as to be uninteresting. I mean I can appreciate the work that went into the building of it but the end result is horribly dull. I don’t care how acerbic and cutting the lyrics are – the whole just has the same impact as the piano player at Nordstoms – it’s pleasant but forgettable.
particularly Katydid which a fan made me listen to in a vain attempt to sway me
Do you mean Katy Lied?
Well well well, I will take pride in the fact that I made Matthew go get a mac to come out of retirement or out of the poop office or wherever you were. Hi Matthew, we’ve missed you. and thanks for the Steely Dan info, your encyclopedic knowledge about certain musical topics never ceases to amaze me.
I agree with you 100% though I’ve given up on trying to convince people about Steelly Dan’s greatness, I might play someone a cut from the Royal Scam here and there, but either you get it or you dont, i’m done trying to convince people. I think, like ramon says, their preciseness and talent turns off a lot of our generation that grew up on rough around the edges DIY music, and being a tight instrumentally skilled band can work against you among some groups.
My question for ramon is, where do you stand on Rush? the same thing you said about SD can be said about Rush.
For me, Ramon put it best, and yes, the same could be said about Rush, which is why I abhor them as well.
I have a funny memory about steely dan. my friend’s dad had a record of theirs which my friend played one night when we were all in a drunken stupor. we were under the influence of several substances, after PROM! and i remember eating a bowl of cereal and dancing and thowing the bowl of milk across the room into the sink while dancing to a steely dan song…i think the lyrics had something to do with some birds??? funny memory. when I hear that song, i think about throwing bowls of milk.
Sorry Justin, You are right it was Katy Lied. My bad.
Carlos,
I first off don’t consider Steely Dan a band but a duo who produces and writes albums. A band would imply more collaboration instead studio of hired guns.
I also have no issues with well crafted albums (see pink floyd) but the important thing is the ideas have to excite me. I’ll put Meddle up against anything Steely Dan ever did and the difference is you can feel akind of excitement in the music, production, and performance. Steely Dan records just don’t engage me becasue they DON’T take chances; the guys know exactly what they want. I have the same issues with Alfred Hitchcock who found the preproduction work engaging but the actual shooting and editing tedious. It’s just a different aesthetic.
Lastly on Rush. Rush is much more fun because any Rush fan will (for all the musicianship and all that)recognize that Rush are pretty goofy. The whole Ayn Rand fixation for example is kind of childish in its enthusiasm and that is really charming. Rush is also a true band whose interplay you can see and hear live or on record. It seems much more democratic than two guys dictating and that comes across in their work. Plus Rush fans don’t claim that Rush is the greatest underappreciated band ever. Rush fans know that people who don’t like Rush really hate it and understand the aversion completely so they only push it on the haters becasue it’s funny to make people endure 2112 whereas Steely Dan fans on the other hand really believe that those guys are poets and everyone is too stupid to get it.
I will end my generalizations now…
Ramon,
How do you feel about classical music? You know, very precise and well constructed where the composer rarely knows which musicians will even be performing the music.
I wonder how much overlap there is between Ramones likers and Steely Dan likers vs don’t like the Ramones and don’t like Steely Dan. I wonder if there’s some core principal we’ve stumbled on to. I feel a thesis coming on.
I think Neil Peart is a poet and most people are too stupid to get it. But i’m kind of stupid myself, so does that work as a double negative?
And i agree with you Ramon, Rush is a band whereas Steely Dan is not. And in that sense they deserve some well deserved praise that Steely Dan could never get. Though I’m not sure that Rush really take any more chances than SD (not counting the huge chance anyone who plays in the same band for more than 30 years is taking). In some interview I read with Geddy Lee he said something along the lines that they never play on stage anything that they haven’t completely and totally rehearsed including solos, i think the line was that no one played a single note that they hadn’t practiced to perfection. But yes, its a band, and they play live and they exchange musical ideas in a way that Steely Dan probably cant.
As for goofiness, Rush might be considered goofy by some, but my impression is that there are many (i would even say most) fans that take rush very very seriously and dont see the goofiness at all, I had one such fan once tell me that the reason Rush ruled is because they spoke The Truth (like that with capital letters) – i sort of believe her. This is not unlike the way that most Steely Dan fans dont see the goofiness in Steely Dan, whereas in my opinion they are complete dorks, the good kind of dorks.
As for Pink Floyd…. I would put them right in the same group with Rush and Steely Dan. Roger Waters may be the missing child in the family. Maybe Rogers/Lee/Fagen are the real Trilateral Commision.
Clay, please please please don’t compare Steely Dan or Rush to classical music that is just what these comic book shop weirdos want you to do. It’s a trap.
Welcome back Matthew. The Clash of the Titans continues.
Clay Coincidentally I just made a fruitless search for the following ringtones…
Karlheinz Stockhausen, Terry Riley, John Cage, Phillip Glass, Igor Stravinsky, Harry Partch.. all to no avail.
Does that answer your question?
I rest my case.
By the way, my friend in the Conspiracy Club International say there is a lot of money to be made by anyone who has an actual picture of Fagen, Lee, and Waters in the same place.
The same way I’ve been able to consistently go back to Rush year after year now for 3 decades, in the same way I have been able to go back to Steely Dan and always find them enjoyable.
I don’t know how you guys do that. You know I say this kind of stuff all the time, but these acts are so ingrained in my skull from absorption at an age when my brain was a dry and willing sponge that I cannot or simply would not go back to them.
I do have a soft spot for Donald Fagen because my old roommate Pab had a thing for him. He was Pab’s Sunday morning music.
One day Pab was shaving with the bathroom door open so he could sing along with Donald. I was sitting on the couch playing guitar admiring the sunlight coming through the big french doors. When suddenly Pab comes tearing out of the bathroom and throough the doors wearing only a towel and shaving cream, followed by a thick stream of flying termites. A good third of the termites didn’t make it to the exit and they glittered like silver flakes in the sunlight as they dropped to the carpet.
It’s a beautiful memory with Donald Fagen as sound track. So…I’ll give him that.
Kilian, I know what you mean, which is why the fact that i can still listen to Steely Dan, Rush and Pink Floyd and not hear it like its 30 years old music makes me think they are working on some world domination scheme together.
and K, nice horse with cat picture.
Clay – I’ll bite, I love random tangential stuff like that. I like Steely Dan a lot and I like the Ramones a lot. But I also like classical, but not a lot. Medium. I do not like Rush or Pink Floyd, however.
I think my tastes are different from ya’ll’s at least because I am not a musician. So I’m not looking at technical ability, drummers, or other stuff. The closest I come to is voice. It rates highly with me, which is funny because I like Steely Dan because if fits positively in that category, but for Ramon it’s a negative.
In fact, the voice of Steely Dan is the craggy unsmooth type I like, which offsets the perfectness of the ‘band’ behind it.
As a category, I put it in my own category called ‘yellow’ which also has in it Van Morrisson and Donovan and other music from Wes Anderson movies.
Funny the parallel there.
I used to think 107.1 KGSR radio here in Austin epitomized the category yellow, and it does, but it’s just not diverse enough and I can’t even listen to it anymore.
Killian – though I like Steely Dan a whole bunch, I don’t listen to them very often. They are on hold until I get enough “hey, I’d like to listen to SD” ideas in my head and when it’s full, I’ll go listen.
I love the Ramones but haven’t listened to them in a few years.
But what’s great about SD is it’s like a little present to myself in the future because I haven’t heard all of their albums, much less in order. But I’ve heard all of the Ramones.
Why one rather than the other? I’ll never be able to listen to Stevie Wonder, but I’m still buying Duke Ellington.
I don’t know if I’ve ever copped to this here, but I was a HUGE Rush fan in high school. Like, I silk-screened the guy standing against the star on to the back of my jean jacket. Like, I can still, probably over a decade after hearing any of them start to finish, still say RUSH FLY BY NIGHT CARESS OF STEEL 2112 (ALL THE WORLD’S A STAGE) A FAREWELL TO KINGS HEMISPHERES PERMANENT WAVES MOVING PICTURES (EXIT STAGE LEFT) SIGNALS GRACE UNDER PRESSURE POWER WINDOWS HOLD YOUR FIRE (A SHOW OF HANDS) PRESTO ROLL THE BONES without looking at Wikipedia or anything.
All of which is to say that my Rush fandom was wholly non-ironic, with no perception of them being goofy. As was, at the time, my Ayn Rand fandom. (Keep in mind that woman is actually very popular with people who, say, don’t notice that her elaborate fantasy of a libertarian utopia has no children in it.)
When I discovered punk rock (thanks, Husker Du!), I had a complete transformation over the course of two-three years (culminating with DJing for KTRU where I drank the Kool-Aid deeply), and have never gone back to Rush. I actually turned my back entirely on classic rock and anything mainstream for a number of years, before I realized that that was incredibly stupid, and now lead a hopefully well-balanced life without too many bullshit prejudices.
I just listened to Rush’s “Force Ten” thanks to YouTube and learned 1. I’m like Kilian and can’t hear it for whatever there is and 2. there are a lot of people putting videos of themselves playing Rush songs on YouTube. Mostly bassists and drummers. And mostly guys. Although I did find this woman trying to play “Freewill”.
Then I watched the video for Distant Early Warning and decided you can’t really go home again, or at least, you can’t watch videos from the 80′s with a straight face.
I owned AJA at one point but was never really into Steely Dan … to me Rush was pretty visceral and Steely Dan wasn’t.
And Wes Anderson’s best movie was indeed BOTTLE ROCKET.
Oooh, Ramon, you’re going down a slippery slope, here. I’m pretty positive that you probably own several hundred albums that fall into the catagory of “just a couple of people calling the shots, and the rest just play what they’re told”…isn’t that a band called Pink Floyd? Or Rush? I mean, do you really think Alex Lifeson agreed to all those keyboards which absolutely smother his guitar on SIGNALS? And Roger Waters is extremely well documented for demanding his vision be properly executed to his tastes, otherwise you’re fired, which is precisely what happened. Remember, Steely Dan is just a duo, because that’s all they ever intended to be…they were just a couple of guys who were hired by ABC to be staff songwriters, and then after a while the record companies decided “Hey, what the hell, why don’t YOU GUYS make an album”…so they realized they needed drummers, because neither one of them plays, and then they called up a few guitar playing friends from back home, and offered them a few paychecks in exchange for a few guitar solos…which I think is pretty fucking cool. I wish I had a few friends who could share some big bucks with me for that kinda work. They’re not a band, as you say, because they never really wanted to be, and i don’t think there are as many fully democratic “bands” as you might think there are. Plus, I know quite a few Rush fans who don’t find them to be silly at all, but they think that Neil Peart is writing some really heavy shit, and I don’t think I ever met a Steely Dan fan who would consider them to be “poets”! The songs are filled with drug dealers, hookers, junkies, scam artists…I’m not sure exactly how they don’t “take chances”…that just sounds weird to me. Surely, King Crimson, Floyd, and countless others are pretty much in the same boat, musically, as far as the songs being pretty meticulous, and I would imagine those units to be just as demanding in the studios… I think…but Steely Dan always seems to be thrashed a bit differently, I could never understand that…I’ve always dug the shit outta them. But then again, I always thought AC/DC sucked big time, so there you go.
I think they’re poets, Rush, Steely Dan and AC/DC too. I realize that there are many poets taht have done a lot harm to the term, but really poets are just those that use words for aesthetic purpose as well as to signify something. Fuck that noise. The Ramones were poets, Sabbath, Floyd, Mike Gunn, LP4, if they use words for aesthetic purposes they are poets, stop pretending that poetry is the fucking realm of some elite group sitting around reading Dylan Thomas and Walt Whitman.
And to clarify, when i said going back to Rush and Steely Dan, i didnt mean to their new material of which i have not a clue. I meant the 1 or 2 records that repeatedly entertain me (for the Trilateral Commision: 2112 and Moving Pictures; Royal Scam and Katy Lied; Meddle and Animals)
And very impressive on the discography DD.
Funny You mention Pink Floyd because the more control Waters has on the albums the less interesting they get for me. The Wall and the album after are likely my least favorite Floyd records (no post waters stuff don’t even count).
But to SD being a duo. I was simply clarifying that they were not a band but a studio concoction – which is ok by me if it engages me but SD simply does not.
My perspective is kind of similar to Ramon’s in that lyrics are always secondary to me. Not vocals, but lyrics. That is, if they have some meaning fine, but they have to SOUND good first in a musical way. This is just a personal taste thing, it’s not a judgment of people who value lyrics over music. So I was kind of unaware of SD having cool lyrics, and always just evaluated them on their music alone – though I will say that this thread has convinced me to listen to them with fresh ears.
On a musical level, SD had this jazz/pop thing going on which I just don’t care for. They’re very talented but I am more of a blues guy than a jazz guy. Rush got proggy (especially later) but their early stuff is still heavily blues influenced, plus it’s really overdriven, heavy and loud, and I like those things too.
And oddly enough, Clay, this is part of the same reason I don’t particularly care for the Ramones. They got too far away from blues for my tastes. From Wikipedia:
“Tom Verlaine described the Ramones as the first band in the world to play a white urban form of rock’n'roll, removing the solos and blues patterns associated with earlier forms of rock music.”
Which is cool and everything, but if you are a guy (like me) who digs late 60s early 70s heavy English-style blues, then the Ramones aren’t going to be your favorite band since they were a direct reaction *against* that style of music.
So there’s your connection, Clay. The Blues, or rather the lack thereof. Guys like me who are stuck in the pentatonic scale sometimes have a hard time digesting other stuff.
The Sparrows comment reminds me of how many times I’ve played Peter Green songs and crack up over the look on people’s faces when I inform them that this is indeed, FLEETWOOD MAC.
You know, my thing is, when I listen to the new Throbbing Gristle record, which is fantastic, by the way, I hear the exact same thing as Steely Dan. I mean, that’s a pretty well crafted studio document, and surely the same amount of planning went into it, beforehand, as well as during the execution. I just never heard any difference, really. I dig it all, I guess. And, honestly, my AC/DC was slag was a bit harsh…I mean, I do like BACK IN BLACK…I’m one of those weirdos that wasn’t all that knocked out by Bon.
Which anon would you be, anon? I don’t even know which AC/DC slag you’re speaking of.
I’m with Matt and Carlos on SD. They don’t bother me at all. I remember when they were on that PBS special a few years back and how hard I thought they rocked.
And I may not have made this clear, but I’m not a big fan of the Ramones. I know my opinions are often so vague. So Clay, sorry to blow your theory. I a) think the Ramones are hacks, and b) like Steely Dan. Oh the humanity.
This argument is almost as dumb as the one that followed my AC/DC post. Carlos is simply saying he likes them. He isn’t saying you are deficient if you don’t like them. I think it’s funny how people take their personal views, get all ruffled, and then posit angular concepts to put a wedge into actually pertinent discourse. Yes, I do it too. Like comparing Rush and SD. No actual comparison there. I like both and still hate the Ramones. So what?
I also agree with Matt that SD is in no way Yacht rock. Christopher Cross, Kenny Loggins, and Steely Dan? No, that isn’t working unless you point of reference is from so far outside 70′s rock that umbrellaing overstatements trying to paint a nonexistent universal theory make you sleep better at night.
Are Fagan and Becker douchebas? Probably. Are they yacht rockers? No. Does liking Ruch equate to liking Steely Dan? No. Does hating the fucking bloated, withered wasteland of the Ramones equate to liking SD? Clay thinks so, but no. Is Bottle Rocket Anderson’s best film to date? Without a doubt. Am I really as wound up as I appear to be in this comment?
Clay, a little explanation is in order. I use the term ‘rocking hard’ to define something I like a lot. It doesn’t always signify to me literal hard rock. That’s what I meant when I said that SD rocked so hard on the PBS sepcial. You know, before you get your panties all in a wad over my continued use of that term.
Ok, carry on.
No John, this argument is AS dumb as the one that followed your post. Apparently dumb debates of the x vs y format are the preferred form of expression of this blog. long live us!
Can the movie Idiocracy really be that far off?
Hey, just wanting to chime in here with my personal Rush experience: I absolutely hated them with a white hot passion in high school. They embodied everything that I abhorred (at the time), meaning my older brother, because he was “that guy” in high school. You know, the one with the Steve Perry haircut who played the guitar in the band that played primarily Rush covers. Everybody thought he was an awesome guitarist. I had to listen to Rush, a band he still worships, over and over again emanating from his overly powerful stereo as it reverberated through the thin walls at my parents house. I had to listen to him play Rush songs over and over again until he got them precisely right, note for freaking note. He pretty much forced me into punk rock and new wave. (He also forced me to go see a Rush concert so that I could understand and see for myself how amazingly awesome they were.) At the time, I hated my brother, and he hated me.
Twenty years later (or more, actually, ahem), I’ll hear a Rush song from that era, and for some reason an unexplainable sentimentality will come over me, and I’m able to listen to the whole song and freaking sing along. I know all the words–they must have bored their way into my brain, like Journey songs with their ubiquity at the time. I don’t really understand this, maybe it’s a Stockholm Syndrome thing.
I want to add that today, I like my brother just fine. He’s a good guy, if a little too righteously conservative. However, he still thinks Rush is the BEST BAND THAT EVER EXISTED and that they still put out excellent music.
Mari, I think that experience would drive a lot of people to punk rock. And I *like* rush and was one of those guys who would take the belt off the record player and try to figure out the solos. I was just never good enough to actually play them right, which is how I found my own way to punk rock.
Stockholm Syndrome. Good analogy. Hostage to the sound, and as the years go on, it becomes landscape.
Sorry, the Anon earlier was me…been awhile, I forgot to write my name. But I did want to clarify my earlier slag of AC/DC…I like some of their songs I guess, they just never blew my mind like other people say…but I was always impressed by the fact that they found a new singer and released BACK IN BLACK literally less than 6 months after Bon died. That’s pretty amazing. Funnily enough, I saw that same PBS special on the Dan, and I remember being a bit disappointed…it just didn’t thrill me at all, but I finally got to see them live, recently, and it was absolutely fantastic. The whole audience was dancing, and singing along, and I was without a doubt, one of the youngest people there. It was quite a new feeling.
sparrow – are you trolling? like, I totally grew up on blues and soul. I owned the ‘white boy blues’ double album. In addition to my other first love being The Rolling Stones. And for some reason my college group only listened to this stuff all four years I was there. (strange, really.)
So, I’m also into jazz. And I like that stuff DD, I think it is, sometimes plays on the napcasts.
And I still like the Ramones.
Didn’t rock come from the blues? And isn’t punk just an extension of rock?
“Didn’t rock come from the blues? And isn’t punk just an extension of rock?”
Blues come from Hell.
Punk and Rock are still trying to get t-shirts made.
Ramona, your line of reasoning doesn’t necessarily mean the Ramones are suffused with blues. Unless you were trying to claim that ‘all rock is an extension of the blues, and thus all punk is as well.” That would just be silly.
Well Ramona, you make my point for me — you like jazz and soul, neither of which I ever really developed much of a taste for. Your tastes in music are probably broader than mine, so something like Steely Dan you have a context for and enjoy, whereas I just hear a bunch of 9th chords randomly strung together and am thinking, “When will this be over so I can hear some Mountain?”
I mean, don’t get me wrong – I love a 9th chord when it’s blasted through a 100watt Marshall by, say, Robin Trower or Jimi Hendrix – but at lower volumes I lose interest.
I think that the punk ethic was basically to do loud, simple, rock & roll and strip out some of the embellishments that had been infused into the genre in the late 60s and early 70s. Some bands did this better than others; I think the Ramones did some things right but, for my tastes, they de-emphasized the blues too much and ended up sounding more bubblegum than punk. But that’s just one man’s opinion. Obviously they did enough right that they influenced a lot of other bands, especially in England, etc.
let’s answer the acerbic first – let’s see, according to Chappele’s Rock N Roll is Here to Pay’s map of the history of music and politics, I’m screwed because he stopped his little map at 1974. So, it’s either out of Instrumental R&R, which then led to surf, which the British Invasion built off of, which then led to hard rock, then heavy metal and glitter rock. I’m guessing it’s that one. ha! There’s Mountain right before Jethro Tull. My favorite is Shlock Rock which starts off with Pat Boon in the 40s and ends with Paul Anka and Olivia Newton John. I’m guessing that’s the history of yacht rock, though schlock rock sounds better.
Anyway, you’ve got me there Cramer. I did take Jazz History but dropped out to help run a punk rock bar.