Locatelli
Work the last couple of weeks involved hours of jigsaw puzzle like software development. This left my ears dangling free and feeling useless so I gave them something to do; stuck some cans on them, and absorbed what I could of a constant musical stream. It's been a while since the j-o-b left room for music appreciation and I tried to take advantage of that privilege not by listening to the Tried & True but by exploring the uncharted rivers. So I dove into classical music, like I've wanted to not as a musician but as a music appreciator.
Where Classical is concerned, I'd like to write with confidence. As it stands now I can only write with Twain inspired humor. I am but an innocent abroad.
Which brings me to my first failure.
For a couple of days I floated down Chamber Music Creek. It generally felt like sitting through every version of Pride & Prejudice ever put on film. But here and there were flashes of brilliance. I dug a lot of Telemann and the blessedly simple Haydn pieces.
Then I got stuck on a strong presto piece in the suckers key of C Major from Italian turned Amsterdammer, Pietro Locatelli. I wanted to share it with napcast listeners so I clicked on Pandora's Buy It on iTunes link (because I have an iTunes gift card)
and then the fun really started.
I was dropped into the iTunes store in an album of Locatelli works but not the album Pandora accredited nor was the song I wanted anywhere to be found. Not that this was obvious to me since every piece was labeled a Sonata this or Sonata that.
Pandora calls the piece Sonata For Flute & Continuo In C Major, Op. 2/1: III. Presto. That's a long winding name with tricky characters that stump iTunes, eMusic and even the bank of discovery, Pandora. If you try to create a Pandora station using their song search tool and plug in their own name for this song, Pandora won't find it. And neither did I. So I did a more analog search, brought up lists of Locatelli's work and slowly read through it. This dude Locatelli had a lot of opuses (or if you want to be Major Winchester about it, the plural "opera" is also accepted). Loca P got his presto on many times, but C Major was far from his key of choice.
He also employed the fiddle on the soprano way more than the flute. The plot thinnened when I found out that Pietro Locatelli himself was a masterful violinist. And so most collections of Locatelli work steer towards the fiddle.
and then the fun really started.
I was dropped into the iTunes store in an album of Locatelli works but not the album Pandora accredited nor was the song I wanted anywhere to be found. Not that this was obvious to me since every piece was labeled a Sonata this or Sonata that.
Pandora calls the piece Sonata For Flute & Continuo In C Major, Op. 2/1: III. Presto. That's a long winding name with tricky characters that stump iTunes, eMusic and even the bank of discovery, Pandora. If you try to create a Pandora station using their song search tool and plug in their own name for this song, Pandora won't find it. And neither did I. So I did a more analog search, brought up lists of Locatelli's work and slowly read through it. This dude Locatelli had a lot of opuses (or if you want to be Major Winchester about it, the plural "opera" is also accepted). Loca P got his presto on many times, but C Major was far from his key of choice.
He also employed the fiddle on the soprano way more than the flute. The plot thinnened when I found out that Pietro Locatelli himself was a masterful violinist. And so most collections of Locatelli work steer towards the fiddle.
Jeez man, the work I did in attempting to track down the correct piece was not dissimilar to the software development work I was avoiding.
Anyway as it turns out, I had no luck finding this particular piece anywhere online downloadable for free or pay. I'm stuck with having to be patient and wait for the old U.S. Postal Service to do their act and deliver the thing in the very ancient format of compact disc.
The hunt did lead to dropping some knowledge. Did you know that continuo refers to the bass line which is meant to be continuous? Usually the composer didn't specify a continuo instrument either nor write a whole part for the continuo. It was usually left up to the musician to improvise which was somewhat startling news to me. I've never met a classically trained musician who could do a lick of improvisation ( I had to write all of the first de Schmog fiddle player's part because of this sad sort of training ). Apparently nowadays with a trend towards more historically accurate concerts, chamber musicians are going back to the improv.
Knowing that, I'd say Norbert Kunst and his continuo buddy should do a little more jamming and give Sonata For Flute & Continuo In C Major, Op. 2/1: III. Presto a little more umph, you know...a little more presto if you know what I mean.
But who am I to judge this stuff?
Anyway as it turns out, I had no luck finding this particular piece anywhere online downloadable for free or pay. I'm stuck with having to be patient and wait for the old U.S. Postal Service to do their act and deliver the thing in the very ancient format of compact disc.
The hunt did lead to dropping some knowledge. Did you know that continuo refers to the bass line which is meant to be continuous? Usually the composer didn't specify a continuo instrument either nor write a whole part for the continuo. It was usually left up to the musician to improvise which was somewhat startling news to me. I've never met a classically trained musician who could do a lick of improvisation ( I had to write all of the first de Schmog fiddle player's part because of this sad sort of training ). Apparently nowadays with a trend towards more historically accurate concerts, chamber musicians are going back to the improv.
Knowing that, I'd say Norbert Kunst and his continuo buddy should do a little more jamming and give Sonata For Flute & Continuo In C Major, Op. 2/1: III. Presto a little more umph, you know...a little more presto if you know what I mean.
But who am I to judge this stuff?
I am but a babe in the woods, a novice, and the sort of sucker that only my fellow nappers could appreciate.
p.s. for those who give a shit, the original image is public domain - and that I made wack.
17 Comments:
I really like the cheese named Locatelli. wonder if it was named after him?
My experience with most classical music is that, like rock music, there is a huge gap between recordings and live performances. Most, if not all of it, after all, was written exclusively to be performed live. And there really is no comparison between listening to say a Mahler or Shostakovich or Wagner symphony live vs listening to them on record.
I mean, there is no way to convey on record the sound of 70 plus instruments coming at you from multiple directions, especially with composers whose work is heavily harmonic, and can really fill a room with music.
Smaller ensembles, in my experience fare a little better on record, but i'd still prefer the live experience. The only classical music i can really dig on record is solo piano stuff, and a few small ensemble recordings where you can really hear the players playing with each other, instead of them just playing the score, usually live recordings.
Also, the few trained musicians i know, that work with orchestras or teach or compose or whatever for a living, they all can play by ear as well. I think that opposition of improv vs. sight reading is, at best, an overstatement, and it is an especially popular overstatement among some non-sightreaders (non of us here at NAP, of course), who somehow get to feel better by thinking that the reason we are not going to learn to sight read is so we can keep our improv chops. I call bullshit. That's like the guy who says he will never learn to play a proper chord on the guitar cause it will ruin his style or creativity or whatever. Ridiculous. If your creativity or style or whatever is stunted by learning a chord, or by learning to sight read, or by taking music lessons, then there must not have been all that much creativity there to start with.
I saw Locatelli cheese while searching but have never tried it. Maybe now I will.
And wow another courageous internet bullshit-caller. How friggin' exciting.
There's a huge difference between being able to play by ear and being able to improvise. It's not a case of improv vs. sight reading. Many musicians I play with can't do either and I am always annoyed by the number of suck ass garage musicians who play only by looking at where other musicians' hands are on their fret board. So I certainly don't hold up the world of bar music as some kind of high bar.
I myself can do all so suck my tit.
Okay, all be it poorly and out of tune.
Anyway I don't know many classically trained musicians. Some of the guys from Lozenge who obviously can improvise. Chenoa who hopefully has since learned and always could learn a part by ear (sort of). My mom who is a terrific flautist/flutist - she can't do no jamming. Also my college piano instructor who was once the pianist for the Tel Aviv Orchestra and he couldn't do a lick of improvisation but he could certainly play by ear. So fuck you and all this ridiculous bullshit calling anyway. Jeez get your hands out of your boxers, put some pants on and get the f out of the house.
A lot of classical music is recorded live and almost always in real time with no over dubs. On the Locatelli piece I like you can hear the flutists breath in the breaks and it is quite nice. Of course I always like to hear music in a live setting so no argument there. One of the reasons I'm going this route is because Chicago is an assume town for Classical music.
The classical world does a great job of live recording anyway - as well as solid sound engineering and musical craftsmenship so I got no problem there.
I think I'm turning into John.
This feels good.
Love ya.
Ok, mister tit suckee, your statement goes as follows: "I've never met a classically trained musician who could do a lick of improvisation ( I had to write all of the first de Schmog fiddle player's part because of this sad sort of training)"
From these two sentences it sounds like your fiddler couldn't play unless the notes were written down. And therefore your statement is a little unclear about whether you really needed someone who could improvise or just someone who could play along. Your statement also points to the subtle difference that can exist between improvising and playing along. At the extremes of course they are totally different. Telling someone to improvise something in G minor using the Dorian mode vs. telling someone to play by ear along to this vamp i'm doing on the guitar are totally different. But telling someone to improvise a part over this recorded tracks begins to blur the distinction.
But you are right, i was lumping together playing by ear and improvising. However, you pretty much have to be able to do the first before you can do the second. Or do you? Either way i was giving "trained" musicians a little latitude in that respect, but only because improvising is a skill that "non-trained" musicians also often lack (as you point out).
And by the way, i am out of the house, but i will not get my hands out of my boxers, what for anyways, i can type with my penis way better than with my nose.
And yes, a lot of classical music is recorded live, but a lot of it is also recorded to appear to be live, but in reality its heavily manipulated.
And chicago is lacking in live classical music? really? or are you just to happy having your tit sucked to go find it? ahhahah.... last laugh?
No Penis boy, Chicag is not lacking in classical music I just acciduntulli spelt assume wen i mend too spel asome.
=)
That is true. Chenoah could not make up a part. Neither can my mom or my piano instructor and lots of people who only learn music through a very disciplined channel. But she could learn a part by ear. The classical world does do a great training job in that regard. And it is a sort of training that most self-taughts don't do enough of.
Trust your ears Luke, put on the helmet...oh fuck it I can't do a Star Wars metaphor.
The Lozenge guys are different because they do not focus purely on classical music.
And I better stop taking the high road on this classical stuff because I'm gonna lose my pants pretty soon.
I wrote this with my penis, and damn boy. New respect. That's hard.
It be harder than ya think. Booyakasha!
Respek.
attempting to insert myself between penises to have a little say...
I took 10 years of classical piano lessons and quit when I was all of a sudden asked to 'now put it together and play something.' or that's how it felt. it seemed to be intertwined with a bunch of musical theory and that combined with taking it to the next level of playing just seemed beyond me. plus, I was heading to college anyway, so screw it.
The Lozenge guys are different because they do not focus purely on classical music.
Right. The Lozenge guys are different because they have chosen to practice both classical and improv. Or at least Kyle and Kurt have. If you work at something you get good at it; it's that simple.
GRRR!!! RARRR!!! GNASH GNASH!!!
Anyway, having said that, I have to say I've had a very similar experience to Wednesday's there... something about classical training precludes much discussion of improvisation. Yes, there is a great deal of ear training, so playing something by ear is usually covered, but making something up is not, and in many cases from what I've been told by people who went to school for classical music performance degrees, it's discouraged or ignored because so little classical music involves improvisation. Some of the older stuff does, but even then it's less improvisation in the sense we usually think of, and more just embellishment of the melodic line or something.
I don't think it's only the less virtuosic among us who bemoan this situation; I've actually talked to some classically trained musicians who felt cheated by their educational institutions over never having been exposed to that kind of playing. You go from conservatory training to some rock band where no one ever writes down the music and you're just expected to "make something up" and all those years of training don't seem to amount to much in that moment, which is incredibly frustrating considering the time and money involved. Sometimes it seems to me that conservatory training and all that classical musical education stuff can sometimes be a bit like a glorified trade school, where they teach only what you need to make a living playing classical music in orchestras and chamber music groups and the like.
Doesn't classical music have a lot of room for interpretation, though? Like notation for dynamics or vibrato or whatever.
I've seen Yo Yo Ma play, for example, and that guy puts a lot of emotion and expression into his playing. It's not the same as improvisation, maybe, but it seems like there are some similarities. I think there is a lot of creative space within the parameters of a classical piece, that a gifted player can do things with.
Well yeah, and that's what keeps classical music from being strictly recitation or a museum piece... exact tempo, dynamics, approach, etc., can all be changed according to the wishes of usually either the soloist(s) or the conductor, or some collaboration between them. I just don't really consider that improvisation myself. It's something else, no less respectable to be certain, but I don't know, not improvisation. It's not the same as giving the musician sheet music with a big blank space and saying "key of G major, 24 measures, now fill that up."
That's funny, but I seem to remember a very close friend of Mr. Anaconda saying something to the effect of, "I don't need to play in tune because I am in the groove." That ridiculous statement was the butt of endless jokes back in the dark ages of the early 90s.
So, considering this little tidbit:
"the reason we are not going to learn to sight read is so we can keep our improv chops. I call bullshit. That's like the guy who says he will never learn to play a proper chord on the guitar cause it will ruin his style or creativity or whatever. Ridiculous. If your creativity or style or whatever is stunted by learning a chord, or by learning to sight read, or by taking music lessons, then there must not have been all that much creativity there to start with."
I am struck over the head with the irony hammer in a big fucking way. Glory be. I am calling the mother of all bullshit on this one.
When you put it that way john... i can't but agree.
And who was my close friend who said that? I dont remember anyone saying it or anyone making jokes about it, so i'm guessing it must have been me.
of course it could be that i just don't remember, would not be the first time, and as for contradicting myself or bullshitting, it wouldnt be the first time either.
My first live experience w/ classical music was Kronos 4tet. I got there free thanks to my job(*), but did not know sh*t about them. Or classic music.
I almost left before the end, because when you are young you dont want to sit down, you want to smoke everywhere, and talk whenever you want (**), you see, I was no more a teenager but still a punk. And the Hendrix cover would not appease me (smile). But something happened... I stay till the end, hate became love -kinda like the Jandek experience reported earlier in this blog I guess-, I had to have a CD, and I can tell that was my first experience with the (purists may understandably argue on the term) drone! I do not know who wrote that piece on that cd (the one w/ the typewritter getting in fire), but it is written down. And gOOd!
(*) I was working at a french university, a little center that was teaching few selected students how to teach music to 3-10 years old kids -no flute or piano, but toys, body, rain stick, a lot of little (african) percussions,... These students were coming from all backgrounds, all good at one instrument in one type of playing, classical, traditional, jazz, pop, cabaret... one guy was a piano tuner, another spend years in Afghanistan with Massoud (***) and was carrying a pix of the guy w/ him... To get into the school, they had to be able to read and sing written music (we just give them a A fork), and create a short piece with the current students. Once in, they learn about theater and child psychology, directing orchestra, using computer and Midi software, they had an harmony class taught by a jazz pianist, guitar lessons for those who do not know guitar, a.s.o.
My job was "helping however/whatever", from 9-5. Because I refused to do my military service and carry a gun (official reason).
That was an incredible environment, during two very formative years w/ access to a lot of music -remember, internet did not exist-, when I get disappointed by Sonic Youth live (****), but starting my way towards .... hmm, "Butchers the Classics" from Charlie Naked!
(**) like at the POFH shows that Dave Dove organizes in Houston. Classical and Improv, in that respect are very similar. Jazz too.
(***)well, google it. I wont talk politic here.
(****) lucky me, they had an extraordinary excellent show in 1998 in Paris during the World Cup...and a month before I moved to H-town, discover SoundExchange and Albert Ayler, and... STOP IT!
Long live the drone, and Churchbus.
Me neither. I call bullshit on myself.
Anyway as far as classical music and improv. Yeah I didn't know about this continuo stuff. It sounds like these parts were often written the way jazz parts are often written - I want you to play this note and then get to this note and how you get there is your business.
I know there's a movement going on right now with this Early Music stuff where people are getting authentic with it. I know Chris' mom (Chris is the churchbus trumpet player) she's into that Early Music stuff. She and her group are into building the old style instruments and work on detuning their instruments to match what was created back in the day. Interesting stuff. She's supposed to have a churchbus Tea to explain this stuff to us (that's the semi-serious ongoing discussion we have anyway. oh and she's a Brit, hence the Tea).
And Kyle and Kurt (and probably the guys Carlos is talking about). Friggin' bad ass monsters because they melded the two worlds. Man, when Kurt and that Boris Hoff saxophone guy they got from Vienna go at it. Worlds collide.
What I meant by "sad" is that it's sad that so much craft and skill can be developed without a knack for creativity. It's like Justin said - you have to work at it. It apparently isn't just the by-product of training on an instrument. You are its bitch until you make it yours.
Man I wish my first experience with classical music had been Kronos Ph.
My first experience with modern classical was from one of your Frenchie kind. Messiaen, and another quartet -the one for the end of time. Nice stuff!
Yeah it's important not to generalize this stuff. Here's to the rockers in every genre.
I always envied/admired people who could read music and had formal music educations; I never had the discipline to do much beyond some basic piano and theory class. The few times I play other people's stuff, it's all by ear; mostly I am forced into improvisation/composition. I always used to joke that I write so many songs because I am too stupid to play other people's songs...but I digress.
I would bet that most of the great blues players were unable to read music; yet the best examples of American country blues stand up, in my opinion, to Bach or Beethoven in terms of pure compositional brilliance. To do the things that Robert Johnson did with syncopated rhythms, etc., you would have to be reading music theory books teleported back in time from some advanced race of aliens, for example.
These guys learned through observation and oral tradition, effectively apprenticing to older masters, as virtually all folk musicians did up until the middle of the last century; when overeducated college kids stole it from them, smoked a bunch of dope, forgot that they didn't invent it themselves and went on to have successful careers writing bumper music for NPR.
Ironically many of the classical masters from the last century or so (Copeland, Shostakovich, Dvorak) borrowed heavily from folk music for their basic melodic themes. Those folk melodies assuredly were not created through music theory, but through the gut instincts of musicians who knew how to tap into their people's emotions and surprise and amuse them; those melodies, or styles, or progressions, etc. were sharpened and honed over hundreds of years and passed down through generations.
So what I'm getting at is that while formal music education is an awesome thing, and I know I would be a much better musician with one, it's only one way. The other more instinctual, informal ways are tried and true as well.
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